| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bewdy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 09:51:31
Does anyone else suffer with this problem? Once I get going at a gig I find my dynamics tend to go out of the window and i end up pounding my drums like my life depends on it. I don't know if it is just a case of adrenaline or whether it's fear of not being heard through the noise (ridiculous as that sounds). So far I haven't encountered a sound guy who's given me confidence I could play at a reasonable level and still cut through. |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Badman_batman |
Posted - 22/06/2012 : 22:57:16
I have the opposite problem, i hate playing loud, so much so i find myself hitting the outer edge of the snare to keep the noise down. Being a intermediate player i have yet to master the dynamics so that makes it easier for me |
| Rudi |
Posted - 22/06/2012 : 20:38:12
A few more ideas do drive the point for your band mates on top the ones suggested by others:
1) ask them to google: "tinnitus musicians with"
2) get them to read this:
Tips For Short-Term Prevention of Hearing Loss
Listen to recorded music at moderate loudness levels.
Reduce exposure time to sound levels above 85 decibels.
Reduce repeated or cumulative exposure.
Protect yourself from exposure to hazardous sound environments.
Use ear protection in noisy environments.
Rest the ears between exposures to loud sounds.
Tips For Long-Term Prevention of Hearing Loss
Get a baseline comprehensive audiological evaluation.
Follow up with annual checkups.
Know the symptoms of noise-induced hearing loss:
Temporary threshold shifts
Ear discomfort after exposure to loud sounds
Ringing and buzzing in the ears
Difficulty hearing in noisy environments
3) point out to them that music and dynamics is about contrast. IF I PLAY LOUD ALL THE TIME I CAN'T PLAY ANY LOUDER. On the other hand if I play at a moderate volume and occasionally play LOUDER the impact is MORE POWERFUL.
4) ask them to think about these three musicians and what they might have in common (hint - cf point 1 above):
Jeff Beck
Eric Clapton
Pete Townshend
5) point out that they are musicians playing musical instruments, NOT instruments of torture and deafness
6) did you know that your IQ drops by 2 points for each dB increase? (actually I made that one up, but not the ones above)
7) Swap their guitars with ukuleles :)
Rudi
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| logic_user99 |
Posted - 22/06/2012 : 15:49:42
I used to but it doesn't happen anymore. 15 years of gigging has taught me how to hold it back! |
| sticksman1 |
Posted - 22/06/2012 : 15:21:46
Look at the way David Garibaldi or Dave Mattacks (to name just two) play on Drummerworld... not powerfully at all, but listen to the sound. |
| RickB |
Posted - 22/06/2012 : 14:13:39
The other thing to think on if you feel you are wailing on the kit live, more than in rehearsal, is that all that lovely muscle memory you have built up will be out of it's comfort zone.
For me that also leads to timing issues as my arms are moving more in the air than in rehearsal, so the physical act of getting the stick to the head on time is affected.
Plus the drums don't resonate as well if you play too hard!! |
| DyeHouseDrumWorks |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 17:43:52
quote:
Originally posted by Bewdy
quote:
Originally posted by DyeHouseDrumWorks
Which ear defenders are you using Bewdy?
I'm using some reasonably good ones (or at least they were reasonably expensive), they are custom ones from spec savers, with a green filter....if you know anything about their ranger.
The only reason I ask is that the filtering-style models tend to be more forgiving in reducing the level of everything you hear in a balanced way - rather than just blocking your ears up, where I could understand a sense of feeling a need to play harder.
Maybe you just like playing loud?!
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| Bewdy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 17:03:45
quote:
Originally posted by DyeHouseDrumWorks
Which ear defenders are you using Bewdy?
I'm using some reasonably good ones (or at least they were reasonably expensive), they are custom ones from spec savers, with a green filter....if you know anything about their ranger. |
| Yard |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 16:30:20
Years ago I was at rehearsals at a Strawberry Farm near the village.
We kicked off and it was poleaxing,so during one of the endless guitar solos I stopped playing and no one noticed.
It was my last rehearsal with self indulgent guitar players just going through the motions.
My mate who lived on The Green said it sounded good...a mile away? |
| DyeHouseDrumWorks |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 16:04:25
Which ear defenders are you using Bewdy? |
| dwpaddy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 15:58:47
slightly off this topic but relevant;
I found I wasn't coming back in at the right place after a guitar solo last night at rehearsals.
I was losing the count which annoyed me.
When I questioned how the rest of the band were counting Mr Keys told me its 4 after he plays the low D.
ME:'But I can't hear your low D, I would prefer to know by counting'.
KEYS; 'But if you weren't wearing your ear defenders you would hear it'
ME:' I wear my ear defenders so I CAN'T hear YOU.'
Result, I worked out the timing and told them to take their que from me.
I understand that stringy/keys folks talk sounds......but I don't. (I probably should, but I don't)
Also, and more importantly, Mr Keys didn't turn up his volume.....I think he knew better. |
| Tex |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 15:40:44
quote:
Originally posted by dwpaddy
A while back I started to hit very gently...too gently in fact.
Come the break the lads mentioned they found it hard to hear me......'Well turn down a bit then', said I.
They did, and thats my trick every time.
I over-emphasis how quietly I'm playing....they get the message and now we have a nice mix.
I've used this on occasion Good trick.
This is like the time-keeping problems.
Keep your own time once it's established and don't automatically speed up when someone onstage says so or does. Same with sound. Not exactly easy in some rooms (glass, rowdy, brick, wood, upholstered, studio. are my room-pitch gauges). Decide first on the room type and tune or dampen accordingly, doesn't usually take much. Then make sure you control you own dynamic for your playing and not the bass players or the guitarists. If they only give a hoot for THEIR sound then you have to wonder what team they're playing for right?
If they play for their team you play for yours. Don't damage YOUR tendons and equipment so THEY can fantasise being rock gods.
Strangely enough, or not but true and accurate sticking is better for cutting thru a mix than just bashing which just changes the mix without actually adding any perceived volume even though it does get louder. So practise coming OFF the head rather than going thru, thus causing the drum to sing to it's full volume potential.
A full orchestra, as loud as any rock band. Yet you can hear a guy at the back tapping a triangle. He studied for a long time to get that right.
Using a full arm rock follow-thru on the little triangle? Would it be louder?
No. You might hear a very small and aggressive boink that wouldn't mean anything to the music and the listener would filter it out and not remember it. Played properly that little attractive shimmer is remembered. Because it means something.
Lesson? Mean everything you play and people WILL hear it. Their ears will seek it out.
Getting deep now and I'm running out of hot air. |
| Drumheduk |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 15:34:36
Definitely agree on the play quieter advice, if they are straining to hear you then they will self limit. |
| dwpaddy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 15:21:47
^
Chortle |
| Yard |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 15:19:21
Top Tip:-
If they refuse to turn down just paint the inside of your shells with white polyurethane paint to make them louder and then superglue their volume knobs at 4?
Let me know how you get on? |
| dwpaddy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 13:50:01
A while back I started to hit very gently...too gently in fact.
Come the break the lads mentioned they found it hard to hear me......'Well turn down a bit then', said I.
They did, and thats my trick every time.
I over-emphasis how quietly I'm playing....they get the message and now we have a nice mix.
|
| Bewdy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 13:02:05
quote:
Originally posted by thebeaver
You should get a pair of the rocket sticks. Apparently they give you "ultimate power and stick control". Problem solved!
I'm not sure i could put myself through that |
| thebeaver |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 12:51:39
You should get a pair of the rocket sticks. Apparently they give you "ultimate power and stick control". Problem solved! |
| Bewdy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 10:39:22
I think it's partly down to the lack of trust with the sound guys we've been using. I run a lot of samples in my set and I've asked the audience on a few occasions now if they heard them and they've said no, which makes you wonder what the rest of the sound is like and how good a job the sound guy is doing. It's a shame it's not possible to be two places at once and actually hear how the band sounds in the audience. That's a feeling shared by all the band members. |
| benjisonfire |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 10:33:20
yup. this has happened to me on a few occasions. I have only recently got past it. You just have to trust the sound guy, and drop the ego. have you ever heard your kit recorded when your playing at 110%? Promise you it doesn't sound as good as when you play at 90%.
it's frustrating but I think the more confident you get with the songs of the band and confident in your technique you start to realise it's better to relax.
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| Yard |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 10:32:24
Same answer every time...get the others to turn down.
The job of FOH is to project your sound that's what a PA does...the monitor man is there to enable you to hear your mix.
Depending upon the size gigs you are doing you may not need monitors?
Listen to the back of the amps as they did before monitors came in as with jazz players.
If it is poleaxing onstage it will sound a mess out front...and that is without knowing if the sound crew at your gigs are competent or not?
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| halfDeadMuffinMan |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 10:20:21
I do this / have done this. It's really irritating too and it creates an awful catch 22 situation where everyone else turns up because of me and then I play even harder to compete. There was no easy way for me to grasp the concept that my kit was loud enough out in front of the band. To me, where I sit, it seems very quiet, probably due to the ear plugs I wear also. Just try to relax and enjoy, not much other advice to offer!! |
| Bewdy |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 10:18:38
Less so since I've started wearing ear defenders. |
| metallicpearl |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 10:14:50
Can you hear/feel what you're playing adequately? |
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Playing too loudly at gigs
